Mustard

Kaitlyn explores the historical context and significance of mustard. Joanna fears of one day accidentally making mustard gas or losing a finger in a dry ice incident. 

Follow the show on Instagram @mywholepersonalitypod
Produced and edited by Joanna Clark
Theme music by Rebecca Jaffe
Podcast art by Michelle Hong (michelleyhong.com)

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

One fact thing that as you're talking about like the ancient um ancient mustard people I heard that Egyptian pharaohs would stock their tombs with mustard seeds. Yes. And I thought, is that what something that I could do for you?

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Yeah, please do. Can you die? I hope so. Okay. Please. I think ideally I'd want to be cremated, which I think would lend itself really well to making a mustard. So actually like make me into a mustard.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

I like this one thing. So I made it my whole thing. Now no one wants to talk to me at parties. Please listen to my spiel, because I made it my whole deal. I made it my whole personality. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Hey everyone, welcome back to my whole personality. This episode is about mustard. It's part two of my chat with Caitlin. And we spent the last episode talking about something that was really important to me, which was rats. And now we're going to talk about something that's important to her, which is mustard. And listening back to this episode, I learned so much. I we recorded this forever ago, so I hadn't listened to it in a while. But I just want to say thank you to Caitlin for she really did a lot of research on mustard. And um I think you guys are gonna learn a lot. So pretty cool. Um I also one of the things that's been really surprising about this podcast, and it's been I've really enjoyed it, is I love when people text me after they listen to an episode. It's it's just been really fun to hear to hear from people. Um but my mom sends me the funniest texts because she'll send them with like no context. Um she'll just text me something like, Did you know your grandfather died in a shipwreck? And I'll be like, Oh, okay, I guess she just must have listened to the oceans episode. And then a couple weeks later, she sent a text that was like, You can get chlamydia from pigeons. And then I'll link to the article, and I'm like, okay, well, I don't know what episode that's from, but I I'm sure I've mentioned it at some point on the podcast because that is a running fear of mine. Like, I I don't even like to open my mouth when I'm outside. Like, if I have to yawn when I'm outside, I cover my mouth because I am terrified of a bird pooping in it, or or a bat peeing in my mouth, which I think I have brought up on this podcast because uh I think that's how you get rabies. But after this, most after she, I think she just listened to the rats episode because I just I think like yesterday got a text from her that just said, Remember when we had to glue Doug back together? And I'd forgotten about that somehow, but Doug, Doug was one of our hamsters who unfortunately got into a fight with another one of our hamsters, and Doug did not come out on top. Doug was uh ripped open hot dog style. And my mom, being just the most compassionate person on earth, rushed him to the vet, and uh they I feel like they were just shooting from the hip because she said that they took him in and they glued him back together. They were like, we're gonna give him the old humpty dumpty, I guess. Uh but it worked, like he did live for a couple more weeks, which is kind of incredible given he'd been drawn and quartered. But uh uh I don't want to end on this. Um did you guys see Summer House last night? Pretty crazy. I also think it's wild, like the Carl and um Kyle fight. I think it's wild how boys can just like physically fight each other or almost physically fight each other and then just totally move on. And I did want to point out that when Carl and Kyle were fighting, Carl was fighting in flip-flops, which is like the most whimsical sounding shoe, you know? Like I can't, he was like chasing after Kyle, being like, hey, come here, you little bitch! And then it was like shower shoes running down the steps. Okay, well, that's it for me. Uh I hope you all enjoy this episode. I hope you learned something about mustard. I hope you go out and buy some mustard. And I will see you in a couple weeks. Okay, we're gonna move into your topic.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yes. I am excited to talk about mustard. Mustard. Mustard. And as I was researching this today, I'm going from like like a little bit of a historical context of mustard because I've always loved mustard, but I do think it's like a controversial like condiment. People love it or hate it, but has been part of like humanity for a very long time. I learned today that we have dated we like the scientific community. The mustard community have dated mustard from the pre-pottery Neolithic phase.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

This is so weird. On the episode I was put out today, we talk about the Neolithic people.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Well, this is like before they had invented pottery.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Like is that like before fire then?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

No, they had fire. Okay. Um, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

The only thing I know how to make pottery is there's gotta be a kiln.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

There's gotta be a kiln. Yeah, so they found that at a they found evidence of humans using mustard. Maybe not how we as modern humans would describe mustard, but like using the plant that mustard comes from in pre-pottery Neolithic society in in Syria. And this was 12,000 years ago. Oh my god, what do they do with it? It just says as as food. It's all I all the detail I got. I'm sure if I read like the scientific research, they they would have more information.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

We don't need to know.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

I wasn't gonna do that, you know, because this is a comedy podcast. Sure. And I thought that was very interesting because like the human use of mustard that predates livestock, it predates domesticated animals. Because I really wanted to contextualize like what does pre-Neolithic, like pre-pottery Neolithic mean? Because saying something that's like 12,000 to 8,000 years ago, like that to me means almost nothing because it there's nothing. I need to be like, well, what else was happening in the world at this time or wasn't happening? Because I really needed to understand it. So I was like Googling things like what was happening, and so that predates domesticated crops and livestock, establishment of permanent villages, polished stone tools, pottery, and then also like significant population growth. So since humans were humans, we've been using mustard.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Weird, even before we had pots in pans.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Beef when like this is like right when Neanderthrals were dying out. Because we coexisted, like Homo sapiens and Neathanderholds like coexisted and like interbred and everything, like for years, hundreds of years, and they they were just dying out when we discovered mustard. They said, actually, we don't like mustard.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

I was gonna say they'd rather die. That's it, we're out of here.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

We're only like catch up around here. Well, they left. And and it's not just it's in every society, it's not just like one group of people using mustard, it's very worldwide, which I thought was fascinating because it's mustard is very universal. And I learned today, and I'm gonna tell all of you as a as a factual source of information.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Everything on this podcast is fact.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Absolutely. That uses of mustard have been in many different societies. And I think as like two people who live in the US, we think of mustard as just like yellow mustard you put on a hot dog, right? Like a hamburger hot dog mustard.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

You make us sound so cool.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Yeah. Why?

SPEAKER_02 8:09

You know, you're like, the one thing we know to do with mustard is like slap it on.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Yeah, slap it on, smother it on, like we like truly, it's like you you open the fridge and you're like, what can I put on this piece of meat? And the answer, what do you have in there? You got mustard, ketchup, mayonnaise. End of list.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

So you throw it all on there, and that's that's what meatloaf is.

SPEAKER_02 8:33

I kind of I used to love when I ate meat, I did I do miss meatloaf.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

I it was a staple of my childhood, and mustard was definitely in it. But it was really fascinating to learn more historical context around mustard because they do love mustard, and when the pandemic started, people were doing lots of weird hobbies, making sourdough bread, and I was like, I'm gonna learn how to make mustard, and guess what? Really fucking easy. It is it is easy, and it wasn't until I would say in the past 50 years that people were buying store-bought mustard, like very conventionally. Well, yeah, like in there's been store-bought mustard, but making your own mustard was still very common.

unknown 9:14

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

So it's very easy. And I'll um I wasn't gonna share it at this point, but No, please, tell me how to do it.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Okay, I don't cook, but yeah, I love that I could.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

You could, absolutely, anyone could. So there's um this food blog called spruce eats.com. Oh, I've seen it. Um, and this is by Leda Meredith. She published this a few years ago, but updated it recently. And mustard is very easy to just have fun with. And the only thing you really need is about three days. Like you can't make it the same day. You really need some time for it to settle in and develop flavor. And like that's the only part you need to remember. So give yourself like four days minimum.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

It's so hard to think ahead like that.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

It is because ideally, I would have made you some mustard that we would have had tonight on this podcast record. So you need um some mustard seeds, and there's a lot, there's about four different types of mustard seeds. Um, it's very easy to get brown and black and yellow mustard seeds here um in Chicago, and you ground, like you grind about half of them. You leave the other half whole if you want, like kind of a whole ground mustard. Yes. And then you need some salt, you need some water, you need some kind of vinegar, so either apple vinegar, white wine, red wine, wine, uh vinegar. Okay. Dealer's choice on vinegar. And then you can add other things like beer, wine. Um, truly you name it, you could put it in a mustard and kind of test it out. But the core of it is like, of course, you need mustard seed, you need some salt, you need some vinegar, you need some water. And if you use hot water, the mustard will be a little bit more sweet. And if you use cold water, the mustard will be a little bit more spicy.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Why is it yellow?

SPEAKER_01 11:09

Because of the yellow mustard seeds. Oh, you got it?

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Okay, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

I mean, even if you were to use just brown mustard, it it would of course be brown, but I do think um it would be a little bit more yellow. Like in your mind, you'd be like, mustard is yellow, so I see yellow. So mustard is very easy to make, and um it's just not until pretty recently that we started buying more mustard, but like mass-made commercially made mustard has been around for a long time, and there's different styles of mustards based on different countries.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

One fact thing that as you're talking about like the ancient, yeah, um, ancient mustard people, I heard that Egyptian pharaohs would stock their tombs with mustard seeds. Yes, and I thought, is that what something that I could do for you?

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Yeah, please do. Can you die? I hope so. Okay, please. I think ideally I'd want to be cremated, which I think would lend itself really well to making a mustard. So actually, just like make me into a mustard.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Make me into a mustard. I love that. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Some people want to be turned into a tree.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Mustard.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

It seems like it would be easy.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah, just give yourself a couple days.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

I'm so sick thinking about it.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

I know it sounds like I have some like other fun facts about mustard. The first appearance of mustard makers on the Royal Register in Paris was in 1292.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

1292.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

1292.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

Huh.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

And after that, France became recognized as a center for mustard making by the 13th century. Because I think when I think of mustard and you're like, okay, where does mustard come from? Maybe the first place my brain jumps to is France.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Is it?

SPEAKER_01 12:58

I think what's yours? Does it not jump to France?

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Mine's America. Because of the yellow mustard.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

So that the American mustard, yellow mustard, ballpark mustard. Those are all things people call it. Like outside of the US, people call it American mustard. And it comes from the uh, well, I think it's like the 1914 St. Louis World Fair. That's where it comes from.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Everything happens at the World Fair.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Truly, truly.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Of course I did.

SPEAKER_01 13:27

You have to.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

We read that in our book club.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

I was it was pre-me. But yeah, like I think you move to Chicago and they're like, okay, you gotta read this book.

SPEAKER_02 13:35

Yeah, it was weird because I was like, oh my god, this Walgreens that's right down the street from me was the site of some horrific picking up of a person to be killed. Um I just wanna I don't think I don't think everything starts in America. I did say that I think mustard starts in America, but that made me sound uncultured. But I guess I'm just because I'm thinking about that real garbage water mustard, which is my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

I think it's delicious.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

It's do you are you ready to do you or do you want to talk about your favorite mustard?

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Yeah, let's do it. And I think that type of yellow mustard was my frame of reference for mustard for a long time. Because I grew up loving it. I grew up in Cincinnati, which has a hot dog culture, like the cheese cone culture of Cincinnati. Like there's a strong culture of mustard in Cincinnati. And I've kind of joked that like I only will live in a place if there's like a hot dog culture. Because like there's I have. And I think mustard is a perfect condiment, period, especially for a hot dog. Like ketchup doesn't belong in a hot dog.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

It makes me a little sick to think about, and I don't even eat hot dogs, but just like the sweetness. It's a sweetness, and I feel like it'll just slip off.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Exactly. And I think if you're a kid, sure, you can have ketchup on a hot dog, but your parents should be like penalized or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Just as you were talking about Cincinnati and mustard, I realized I think I think, I think I know where I think mustard is from.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

I think to me, Germany feels right.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

That's a really good answer because like I don't have I didn't like go dig into the timeline of like, well, who who in like Europe was developing mustard at what time? I didn't dig into that level of it.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

There's only so many hours of it.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

I'll wait for my um peer-published research later. But yeah, there's a couple different like schools of mustard. And there is that that m yellow mustard from America that we all know and love, the French's mustard. There's that spicy brown mustard that is also really common in the US, especially like um Louisiana French influence. And then Dijon mustard, which I think is like the second, for me, I would say that's a secondary type of mustard people think of. They think yellow mustard, and when I say people, I'm like Americans, like people from the US.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

Dijon will be number two.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

Will be number two because Grapeon mustard has been around. I literally wrote this down earlier because it's like we're gonna talk about that commercial, I'm sure. We're gonna talk about Grey Coupon. Um it's been around since like the 1870s when like two other mustard houses merge.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

The mustard houses merging.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

So it's just been around for a long time. A lot of the store, like our current, you walk down the condiment aisle aisle, you look at mustard, those mustards have been in production for a long fucking time. And I think that's really cool because not a lot of the areas of the grocery store where you can buy like a like a heritage product.

unknown 16:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Right? It's just like a cool thing you'd be like, oh, I'm eating this mustard that people from 200 years ago were eating this like same product, which is kind of crazy to think about.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

And people from pre-pottery times. Yeah. It's not that specific to type of mustard, but humans have been eating mustard for such a long time.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

What's sick fucking vintage ketchup? Okay, I interrupted you, but your favorite, what are your favorite mustards in order?

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Okay. I think it's really hard. I think a yellow mustard is delicious, but you cannot have it truly on its own. Because it's a little bit too, it's very vinegar-based. So having that mustard as just like a singular, like, oh, I have some like pretzels, I'm gonna dip it in there, it's a little much, a little much for the front of the palette. But it is still delicious. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

I used to I used to bring salads into work that they would ask me not to. They were like so vinegary-y. So fine. So I would eat, I would eat yellow mustard by the spoonful.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Okay. I mean, more respect to you. Um, so I would say the first mustard I reach for is definitely a mustard that has like a like a more of a Dijon flavor profile.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

But I also love a like a fruit mustard.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Okay. I'm rub something about that's rubbing against me.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

It sounds weird, right? But um, there's this mustard brand that's French called I I think it's pronounced Edmund Fellow. Well, I was a French miner, so there's a there's an OT at the end that I know that it's typically silent. So, like, but if I were a full American, I would say Edmund Fallet. And that's definitely not right.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Palais fellow.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Fellow. That's what I would think. Um, but they have this black currant mustard, and black currant is what we would normally call like a blackberry or a raspberry.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

And it's just it's very nice, it's very subtle. It's a great compliment to, for a salad dressing, a great compliment to a sandwich.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Interesting. Okay. Yeah. I know fruit ra fruit mustards weren't ever something I thought could happen in the world.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

I learned today that in Italy they have this uh, like it's a fruit mustard, but the way that they use the word mustard is something that like you and I would not recognize as a mustard. Like I saw, I was like, well, what does this look like? Because the way they're describing it didn't make any sense. It looks it looks like a jam. It looks like a jam. So it's like fruit, it's very much like a jam.

SPEAKER_02 19:04

What color is it?

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Imagine like a peach jam, like an apricot jam, and that's what it looks like. And so, like, their term of mustard often ref refers to that type of condiment versus like the rest of Europe, that when they say mustard, they mean more of what you and I would consider a mustard.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

I think about this all the time with pickles.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

Because like pickles are just anything that anything could be pickled.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Yes, but Americans are like pickles. Pickles, cucumbers only.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Which brings me to wait, so that wraps up your top three.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

Did you have more?

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Um, I love a I love a brown mustard. I love a spicy brown mustard. I really do not like a a sweet mustard with the exception of a honey mustard. I am a I think honey mustard is the perfect gateway mustard. It totally is. Because it's just like, okay, you don't like mustard. Well, have you had honey mustard?

SPEAKER_02 20:00

It's so good. I remember at the cafeteria in college, they had like two huge gallon pumps, and I would just pum, pump, pump that honey mustard. I don't know what I would put it on.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

I feel like it has to like to me, if I'm having like a chicken finger situation, I want honey mustard. That is one condiment I want.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

I miss I I've I've said I miss meat like three times on this podcast, but I just feel like there aren't as many vegetarian opportunities to dip. But I mean, we'll look fries, I'll dip a fry in anything.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Um, yeah, I'm a yellow mustard girl, pretty, pretty, pretty high up there for me. That's number one. I think number two is probably it seems like I should have thought about this beforehand. Like even when you were answering. It was like I didn't even anticipate that I was gonna have to answer this myself. But I do like a Dijon because I like, I like the spiciness of that. And I really like adding that to I feel like I've added it to a lot of um like salad dressings, but then what did I make recently where I would add oh yeah, because I I would make like a Greek salad and put a little bit of that in the salad dressing.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Um, so I think that's gonna get I think that's gonna be a Dijon and then three probably a spicy.

SPEAKER_01 21:11

Yeah, I think you gotta go spicy.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Yeah, probably a spicy.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Though you brought over a horseradish from us, yes, I would like to put that from the five. That's really nice. I think it's like I haven't other so we I brought this mustard home from Austria, from Vienna, and it has a really strange first flavor note.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Is that the one that we tried?

SPEAKER_01 21:31

Yeah, it's almost sour, right? And you taste it and you're like, what the fuck am I tasting? It's like sour, sweet, and then at the end you're like, okay, I guess this is mustard. It just is not a mustard style that I like.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

It doesn't have a lot of confidence.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

It doesn't have a lot of confidence. I wish I was better at describing like taste.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

To me, it tasted like this is how this is how I describe scotch. Like I love bourbon and whiskey. To me, scotch. Tastes like the worst part, the worst parts of like a whiskey and a bourbon. And to me, that mustard tasted like it tasted like something had been sucked out of good mustard and we were just left with the drugs.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Yeah. You're like, actually, I opened this two years ago. Here it is.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

I appreciate you sharing it with me, but I wish you hadn't.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

I'm sad that I I have a whole it's a different brand, so maybe it's better. But I have a whole like I have a bigger tube of it.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Where do you buy your mustards?

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Okay, so I think I honestly think a normal grocery store has a really great selection of mustard because of just consumerism and capitalism. But when I travel, I will seek out a grocery store on every trip because you will find you will find a glorious selection of things you never thought to think about. It's like a great like sample test of the city you're in or wherever you're at. And mustard is always there. And I one of my favorite places to buy mustard, which this is such an unrelatable thing, but the Amsterdam Airport has a great selection of mustard. It's past security. You don't have to worry about how much mustard you're buying. It's sold right next to the giant wheels of gouda, and there's just so much mustard.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

That sounds really nice.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

It's really fun. And you're thinking, you're like, I've bought so much mustard there, and we have since had another flight through Amsterdam before. And I'd be like, I'm gonna buy that mustard again.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Well, let me know what it is because I do believe that I will be flying.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

I have it in the fridge right now. I'll you'll you can look at it because in the picture. It's so good because that mustard is something that I will make a salad dressing out of. It's just like a classic everyday, it's just like a smooth, kind of milder mustard yellow. It's an everyday mustard. And like what can't you do with that? You can put on, I mean, everything pretty much, other than like cake. I don't think you could put it on cake.

unknown 23:50

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

I wonder if mustard ice cream is good. I bet it is.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

I would try it. Yeah. I a few years ago, Jenny's had a like a bagel, everything bagel ice cream.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Oh, I bet that was really good. They do a good job.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

They do a good job.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

My mom one time came to visit and we were walking down the street in Old Town, and this girl was walking by with an ice cream comb. My mom just goes, Hey, where'd you get that ice cream? And she was like, Oh, Jenny's. And so we had to go to Jenny's. My mom loves ice cream. Oh, where do you like to buy your mustards? Listen, not all of us can take after the mustard animals. Domestic flight. Just a little hop over, come on back, day trip. Where do you like to buy your mustards locally?

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Again, like local, go to your Mariano's grocery store, Whole Foods, and just like take a moment and like look at the mustard options and look at the choices that aren't like a normal yellow mustard because you will find something that is unique and it'll be delicious. Also, okay, so Trader Joe's has this pickle mustard.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Oh my god, your mustard is mustard.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

It's delicious. It is a yellow mustard, but there are like chunks of pickle in there. It's fucking delicious. I love that. I hope they still have it. Like it's probably a seasonal item, but it's I mean, it's almost summer, so I feel like they should have it soon. And um, I mean, don't be afraid to try to make mustard either because, like, what do you have to lose?

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Well, I've heard based on uh one episode of Bellow Deck I watched that it's very easy to accidentally make mustard gas.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

Oh yeah, because of like you mix chlorine cleaning products with like another type of cleaning product. I actually don't know, but I'm gonna do it. It's like you mix, it's like it's like bleach. So imagine you're using like a Clorox product, like a bleach Clorox product with like Windex, which is ammonia. So you mix those two together, which you shouldn't do, absolutely do not do that, because you will make a gas that is similar to mustard gas.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Oh, okay. So is there mustard in mustard gas?

SPEAKER_01 25:49

I don't think so. I think they named it that because of the color of the gas.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

This is I was gonna say, this is a lot like the fleas and the plague. It's gonna be a name.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

I do not know, but at the end, because I was like looking, I was like on the mustard condiment uh Wikipedia article, and I was like at the very bottom of it, and it said, see also mustard gas.

SPEAKER_02 26:10

You gotta check all the boxes.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

And I was like, you know what? I don't need to go there.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Just because we are talking about mustards, I think that we would be remiss um not to talk about condiments.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

So on the scale of condiment, is it your favorite condiment?

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Yeah, like I think it has to be.

SPEAKER_02 26:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

What are your other favorite? Like, what are your top three?

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Um, I would put I love a mayonnaise. I'm not gonna lie. I love mayonnaise. I think a mayonnaise is delicious.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

They're not all the same.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

They are that's what I'm just like mustard, they're not all the same. Um, I think different mayonnaise have like a different use case. So I think if you want like a really nice like dipping sauce, you gotta go cupy mayo, which is like the Japanese style mustard because it has more fat in it. But if you're just like fucking putting it in like tuna or like doubled eggs, like Hellman's is just fine.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

But I think you I think mayonnaise is really nice. I as a Midwestern, gotta shout out ranch, love a ranch. Um, I love barbecue sauce.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

I do love barbecue sauce.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

I love a mustard barbecue sauce, but I I grew up in a like a part of the US that doesn't have like a strong barbecue presence, so like I don't have like a an allegiance towards a certain style of barbecue. So I love all barbecue sauces.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

I'll put barbecue sauce on things sometimes just to feel like I'm part of the culture.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Why not?

SPEAKER_02 27:39

Yeah, why not? It's it's good.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

I love um I love a condiment. I think it's it really makes food exciting when like we travel, we go to grocery stores, like I said, for mustard, but we also will buy other like random condiments there. You have to try new things, and a condiment is like one of the easiest ways to do that because even if you don't know what to what you're gonna do with it, it's fun to have in your cabinet and you pull it out for a party, you pulled out to like make a salad dressing, you pull it out to just like have like a little experiment with, and I think it's fun. It's like a really I think it's an underrated souvenir, other than like a fridge magnet.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

That's such a good, that's such a hot tip.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yeah, it really is. I mean, yeah, I mean it's like you're going to a grocery store, so it's like not gonna be super expensive. You get to see what's on the shelves, and you get to feel a part of the community that you're experiencing.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

I do um, I like a little jar of something one of my uh one of my friends got me for Christmas like an advent an advent calendar that was the Bonemerie jams.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

We've had that. It's so great.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Oh, it's so good.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

What was your favorite one?

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Because some of them are weird, some of them were really weird. I I'll tell you, I can't remember the ones I liked as much as I know the big time no-nose. Yeah, let's hear the big time no-nose. Yeah, I didn't like that. And then there was like a chocolate one.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

There's some things that you're like, you have no business doing this.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Yeah, because I was just putting them on scones and stuff every day. So I I don't know, but it was it was like such a good, it was such a great gift.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Yeah. Um what are your least favorite condiments? I I only will eat ketchup with a French fry, and it's like never my first choice.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

What else I okay, I'll say for me as a vegetarian, what else would I put that on?

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Exactly. I'm like, I don't understand.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

I just had a breakthrough. I think ketchup only goes on things that are hot.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Yeah, well, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

What would you think of anything cold that it would go on? Because mustard goes on cold things.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

You're right. I I can't imagine putting, for instance, putting ketchup on a a sandwich. Makes me sick. That sounds really bad. Yeah. Because ketchup is very sweet, and I can't imagine that.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

No. I don't know. I don't think I don't know if it's a condiment, okay?

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Okay, let's hear it.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

Jardinera.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

I think it's a condiment.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

It's absolutely so I'd never heard of it until I moved to Chicago. It's the best. It's so great. It's so good.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

I've given it as gifts before.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

That's a great gift. Yeah. It's the hardest, hardest word in the English language to spell. It's I would say impossible to spell. Yeah. So I think my number one's gotta be mustard. My number two is probably either if Jardiner counts, but if not, I do love a hot sauce.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

I love hot sauce. In this house right now, we have at least six bottles of different hot sauces open.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

They're great.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

They're all they're awesome.

SPEAKER_02 30:27

Yeah, I think I like a vinegar-based thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

It has to be the same.

SPEAKER_02 30:30

I only like mayonnaise if it's on like a Subway sandwich or like a Jersey Mike sandwich or something. I don't like it, it's not the same when you get it jarred. No, I tastes really different to me. And I used to work at Jersey Mike, so I do have some inside information there.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

I uh I do like a mayonnaise like in a like an egg salad, chicken salad. Well, you don't eat chicken salad, but like if you were to eat like a I used to eat a tuna salad a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Um and I would put mayonnaise in there. And for a while when I was on whole 30, I would make my own mayonnaise and I would make it all the time, and it's actually really good.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

And it's like better than a I'm sure it is, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

I I I don't like an aioli. I hate I do not like an aioli.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

I I love a creamy dip situation. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

Well, an oily is just a that's just a mayonnaise. I know.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

But it has too much extra stuff.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

I think about it, it makes me makes me like I think I I like um I don't think I like dipping fries in something creamy. I think it needs to have vinegar.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

I I really like a cheese, but I love really do love dipping a fry in a mayonnaise. I hate it. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

Do you want me to go? Get out of here.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

Um, I wanted to talk about honey mustard. Oh yeah, please. Because I really I we said earlier it's the gateway mustard. I wholly believe that. Um, so I was curious about when honey mustard started because to me it feels very much of the recent era. But apparently, like the combining of honey and mustard does date back to ancient Roman Egypt. Okay. So I thought that was fascinating. And you said something about ancient Rome earlier, or excuse me, ancient Egypt. And I thought that was just very interesting that recipes for honey mustard date all the way back to the fourth and fifth century.

SPEAKER_02 32:07

What they were putting it on back then. Truly. Because they didn't have pretzels.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

They didn't have pretzels, chicken fingers. Did not have those chicken fingers. So I was like, I was just very fascinated, like, when did this in the US especially become like a phenomenon? Because I can't if I was someone's like, oh, we're gonna go get chicken fingers and they didn't have honey mustard, I wouldn't want the chicken finger.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Yeah, you'd leave.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

I'd I'm leaving. I have gone to a movie theater knowing that I was going to order chicken fingers, but also knowing they did not have honey mustard on the menu. I brought my own goddamn honey mustard that's yes.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

Good on you.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

It was I felt like a complete lunatic. I waited till the lights dimmed. I opened my Tupperware of honey mustard and dipped it in there, and it was great.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Is it Alamo? Do they not have honey mustard?

SPEAKER_01 32:56

It was alamo they have they serve it with ranch, and that's wrong.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

I've heard their chicken tenders are really good.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

They are really good, and the fact that they're serving it with ranch, like respect the Midwest game, but like I think honey mustard should be an option.

SPEAKER_02 33:10

It should be. I've never talked about meat so much. I just want you to know. I feel like Bellow and nope, never mind.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Oh, you're gonna bring up Twilight? No, finish the sentence.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Bella when she finds out she's pregnant because she makes those chicken wings and then they turn.

unknown 33:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

So it was like the 70s, 80s where honey mustard be kind of became like a bigger thing in the US. And I was like, I wonder, like, because I'm convinced it was like Pizza Hut or something. That like pop like I'm convinced it was some kind of like nationwide like chain restaurant that popularized it because we're all like I'm just like, where could it have come from?

SPEAKER_02 33:47

It feels very, yeah, it feels very American.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

It does, and that's why I was really shocked to hear that it the combining of the two does date all the way back to ancient Roman Egypt. I thought that was interesting.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

That is interesting. Um, anything else you didn't get to say about mustard?

SPEAKER_01 34:02

Um, I already talked about my recipe. Or mustard gas. I wish I'd looked up more about mustard gas.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

I didn't make mustard gas, but one time I didn't know what dry ice was because I was like doing those meal kit things and they sent me dry ice and I was like, well, I don't know what to do about this. I was like, uh yeah, I'll open the box um and I'll dump it in the sink. And then it's not melting. I guess I'll turn on the water. And it created quite a foggy kitchen. And I called my friend Corinne and I was like, I've touched this dry ice, um, and I just looked up that I'm potentially gonna lose a couple fingers. And she was like, What are you doing? You need to wear gloves. Like, my dad works with dry ice all the time, which I didn't know, but she was like, You need to just put the bags outside and let it dissolve. And I was like, they should have included information on this, and then I flipped the lid of the box, and they do have it like don't touch, do not put in sync. Um, but again, I can't read instructions, so but that's as close as I got to making mustard gas.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

I did theater in high school and we had several shows that had dry ice involved in them, and they're just letting the 16-year-olds handle the dry ice backs backstage.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

It's so dangerous. Like when people make cocktails with dry ice, I'm like, I was told I was gonna get frostbite.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

They were like, who's gonna see us? Me.

unknown 35:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

No, that's it. That's all I have on mustard. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

Well, thanks so much for coming on. Of course, I love this. I love this, and I'm really excited for our next episode, which we're gonna have to text the Twilight friends about right now. Um I won't spoil it, but um, okay, well, thanks so much for coming on. Of course, anytime.

unknown 35:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 35:41

Bye-bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to my whole personality. This podcast is edited and produced by me, Joanna Clark. Theme music by Rebecca Jaffe. If you like this podcast, please like, subscribe, read it, review it, wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening.