My Whole Personality

Mob Wives and Being Scared of Loud Noises

• Joanna Clark • Episode 26

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0:00 | 1:03:28

Joanna talks about hating fireworks and meeting Tom Petty at a NASCAR race. Maddie explains why Mob Wives is the best reality TV show ever created and what it's like to yell at mourners. 

Follow the show on Instagram @mywholepersonalitypod
Produced and edited by Joanna Clark
Theme music by Rebecca Jaffe
Podcast art by Michelle Hong (michelleyhong.com)

SPEAKER_05

Just the other day, someone yelled at me because I accidentally I'm already on their side. I already see their point. The stoplight turned green, and so I started to go, and I didn't notice that still coming around the corner was a funeral procession. Of course.

SPEAKER_00

I like this one thing. So I made it my whole thing. Now no one wants to talk to me at parties. Please listen to my spiel, because I made it my whole deal. I made it my whole personality.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Hey everyone, welcome back to my whole personality. Uh, if you're watching this episode, cameras are off for this intro. Uh I I fully intended to record this intro yesterday, but I ended up going to the dentist and having some um work done that I wasn't really anticipating to be as um debilitating as it was. Um I couldn't feel my chin for like five hours. Uh so I was gonna record when I got home from the dentist, and that just went out the window. So it's early. It's not early, it's 9:30. Um, but you know, I'm I'm pretty much unemployed these days. So uh yeah, I actually I've I am looking for jobs everywhere, everywhere I go, because I'm so into this job search. Anytime I go anywhere, I look around and I'm like, should I work here? I got a massage and I came home and I was like, Heather, I think I am gonna go to massage school. And she was like, but you hate people. You don't especially want to touch people. And I was like, Yeah, you're right. Okay. And then I saw another job the other day that was for um a cake decorator at Costco. I applied. There was a like a receptionist at a dog grooming salon, and it was like, if you, you know, if you become this receptionist, you'll also get a discount on our dog training program so you could become a dog groomer. And I was like, that sounds so great. I have a lot of dog experience with being a former professional dog walker and dog walking manager. I could I I could give some some dogs some haircuts. I think that would be quite nice. And then I just, because I researched everything to death, I got on Reddit and I was just kind of looking at what it what's involved in being a dog groomer and what the community is saying about it. And have you ever heard of groomer's lung? A lot of people were talking about that in Reddit. They were like, yeah, this job is actually really hard on your body. And they were talking about Groomer's lung. And so God just thinking about it makes me feel like I've got dog hair in my lungs. Uh, so I'm not gonna apply for that job, actually, because I have asthma. I I can't be messing with groomer's lung. Um I think that's all I really wanted to say at the top of this. Oh, I just also want to say thank you to everyone who has reached out to me about the explosive diarrhea parasite. I feel very seen. Uh, whenever there's kind of a big pandemic, well, I don't even this isn't a pandemic. Whenever there's like a big disease that's trending, everyone reaches out to me just to get my thoughts on it, to see if I'm aware. I'm always aware. And um yeah, I've got my eyes on this one. I'm watching it. I I was looking at um, because I wanted to do like a TikTok video on it. So I kind of went to the CDC's website to see what was going on with it. And I'm actually gonna pull this up really quickly. Explosive diarrhea parasite. Because what happened on the CDC website was crazy. They said, let's see, ways to avoid it. Number one, avoid consuming food or water that may be contaminated with feces. Okay. And then my sister also sent me, she was like, hey, this reminded me of you. It was a screenshot of the symptoms of the explosive diarrhea parasite, and it said loud diarrhea. That really made me laugh that they had to say it's loud. So if you have quiet diarrhea, you probably don't have maybe you don't have it, so maybe nothing to worry about. I really wish I hadn't talked about this. I'm gonna just move on. I was gonna say blow right by it, but my god, we're right back in. Another thing I wanted to say about this episode that's coming up. Um, well, I guess I should just go ahead and introduce it. It's with my friends, Katie and Maddie. You might remember them from the Lord of the Rings episode. Katie and I wanted to talk about Lord of the Rings. Maddie was just kind of there for support since she didn't at the time care about Lord of the Rings. And she said, I will join and have you guys talk at me about Lord of the Rings for two hours, but then I want to come back on and talk about mob wives. So this is Maddie's moment. She's back on to talk about mob wives. And I'm talking about being afraid of loud noises, which is a big part of my personality. So no wonder my sister sent me that screenshot. She's probably worried that I'm afraid of this loud diarrhea. I didn't mean to talk about diarrhea so much in this episode. Um, but it's a fun episode. I do want to say, mom, if you are listening to this, there's a part that I don't want you to listen to. As soon as Maddie says, don't you have a joke about a magician? I want you to fast forward 30 seconds to a minute, and I won't be elaborating further. But I hope you all enjoy this episode. Um stay safe out there, wash or cook your produce. And I think that's it. Oh, and if you're hiring, shoot me an email. I need a job. Okay, bye-bye. Okay, well, I also know that it's late there, so if you guys are cool, just like jumping right on into it. We can, because I don't want to take more than like an hour-ish of your time. Okay. I know, but I'm like really excited to talk about this. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05

You guys then we'll we'll keep it at your pace. Yeah, I had to fucking talk about Lord of the Rings for two hours. I am. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_02

I'll just be here on this one.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I'm so sorry, Maddie. You're right. But you know what, guys? I actually have a follow-up to our Lord of the Rings episode. Okay. And I'm really excited to tell all our listeners. Oh my god, okay.

SPEAKER_02

Um our listeners.

SPEAKER_05

My one of my groups of friends here has been talking about doing like a marathon Lord of the Rings watching for like two years.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And we're finally gonna do it. I'm host, we're hosting it here. And we're gonna, I'm gonna decorate the house like the Shire, and we're gonna have tea time and 11's so much has changed since the last time we spoke.

SPEAKER_01

You've been radicalized by our podcast. I really have the power of my whole personality. Wait, so are you gonna do every single movie in one day?

SPEAKER_05

Extended versions. That's intense. You're gonna ask you.

SPEAKER_02

That is so intense. Going upstairs to to sleep, take naps. Yes.

SPEAKER_05

I'm just mostly excited just to like have a themed event. I know you are, yeah. And I'm gonna make a banner that says filthy hobbits.

SPEAKER_01

Um, okay, well, Maddie, that's great. Um, I'll go ahead and introduce you all. And would you say your names again? But this is Katie and Maddie.

SPEAKER_05

This is Maddie. For those who are listening and not watching, I do have my fur coat on. I have on red lipstick, and I am fully channeling who I wanna be when I grow up, which is a mob wife. And I'm just Katie in normal clothes.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Thanks you guys for coming back on. Unrelated, I went to a magic show last night and it was so cool. I actually brought my recording equipment and like, so I'm gonna like release an episode from us like talking about it, but it was so much fun than I thought about you guys because it seems like something you all would like. Did you interview the magician? No, no, I just kind of interviewed my friends on the street before and after.

SPEAKER_05

That's very cool. Isn't didn't you just recently do a like a joke about a magician like coming inside you or something?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, oh, oh, not recently, but I know the joke that you're thinking about is how when I had sex for the first time, I like wasn't really familiar with condoms and how they work, and we had sex and the condom disappeared. And he was like, Sometimes that just happens, uh, they just disappear. And I was like, That's so crazy. It's like a Listerine strip. And then I got home and like hours later I uh I passed a condom, and it was kind of like I was just like pulling the joke, was like I was like pulling it out, like how a magician would pull, you know, um a scarf out of their sleeve. But I was pulling a condom filled to the brim out of I'll cut that, Jesus. But fucking hell. My mom listens to this podcast. So that's anyhow, anyhow. The first thing we're gonna talk about, which I actually picked this topic, Maddie, with you in mind, because I think that there is something wrong with me. And I think this will be important to talk about with you, because you are a counselor, okay? But something that's been my whole personality for a long time is I am scared of loud noises.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So one thing that I and Maddie, maybe you can speak to this. When I am around a loud noise, it is like a physical response in my body. I feel like I'm gonna explode. Like it is panic. Like if I'm standing under the train tracks when the train goes by, it it feels like I'm gonna explode. It's I get so scared. It's like a very strange reaction. Wow, what's wrong with me?

SPEAKER_05

I don't know. Well, I'm a little too close to the source to say. But you have such high levels of anxiety at all times that anything that would push your nervous system even one inch further probably is like just crazy.

SPEAKER_01

That's true. It feels like that. My therapist, she was like, I hate saying this because it's like so overused, but I think you're what we call a highly sensitive person. Capital H, capital S, capital P. Because I was telling her how my startle reflexes are like kind of a problem. Like they're so strong that I like I feel like people get annoyed with me because when I get I I get scared and it's like I full on scream and it's I have no control over that.

SPEAKER_05

Well, you know, I have firsthand experience with this with you guys, both of you actually. And I was just telling someone about this when I was driving us through Ireland, and every turn of the wheel that's what was happening.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it was And to be fair, on the other side of the story, we we hit a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_02

We were just very close to stone walls, too close for comfort.

SPEAKER_01

But I am I really try not to do it in the car because I hate when people do that to me in the car. And so, like, that is, I feel like one place where I'm controlling it. But it's like I've like seen people in the building and just like not expected to see them, and I've screamed. And it's like I get scared about I get scared just thinking about if someone were to scare scare me as a prank, I could kill us both, I think.

SPEAKER_02

Like I like scared. You don't like scary movies, I'm guessing.

SPEAKER_01

No. And fireworks. I have that on my list. I don't like fireworks for a couple reasons. One, they blind the birds and kill them out of the sky. Two, dogs, animals hate them. Three, bad for the environment. Four, why you've seen one firework, you've seen them all. You do not need to see more than one firework. Now I have said I do say that.

SPEAKER_05

Once you've seen one firework, you've seen them all.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

There's nothing new.

SPEAKER_02

Why are they bad for the environment?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I don't know. Uh, I think they put off well, they put off a lot of smoke.

SPEAKER_05

And debris.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I haven't looked at it. I think it's a big ozone problem if I had to put a label on it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Well, I'm no dentist, but I would say that that sounds right.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well, Thunder of Relouable is a big deal in this town. So I know. I used to work for it. Preserve the right or plea the fifth on fireworks.

SPEAKER_01

That's fair.

SPEAKER_05

I forgot you did work for the Derby Festival or something, didn't you?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I did. I was an intern. I was a free intern covering for someone who's on maternity leave, which is so illegal now, I'm sure. Or probably not. But yeah, so I was like doing all the festival stuff and got to like go on a bridge for thunder, and everybody's like, this is so cool. And I was like, my knees are shaking. You're white knuckling it.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And one of the questions I wanted to ask you all is uh, what's the loudest noise you've ever heard?

SPEAKER_02

Katie, do you have anything? I did spend some time trying to think about this, but nothing really came to mind except I think the loud noise that I dislike the most, which is when you're like out on the street, like walking down a street and a car drives by with like really loud noise or like a motorcycle or one of those. Like, I'm just like, why are you why do you do that? Why are you trying to ruin everyone's day? It's so loud. I'm trying to sit at a sidewalk cafe and you're just ripping down the street, and no one thinks it's cool. And I'm sorry if this makes me sound very no, it's okay.

SPEAKER_05

We have a lot of Fast and the Furious fans that listen to this, but I think, well, the first thing that actually came to mind was when uh we were visiting Katie the first time, and me and Joanna slept in that bed, and we were like day drinking, and I farted really loud. Yeah. And then Joanna went and slept on the couch.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that did scare me. She was like, What happens to me a lot? All right, done. Have I told you all about the symphony of farts and screams?

SPEAKER_06

No. Oh okay.

SPEAKER_01

So whenever we go on like our big group trips, we call them like like summer camp, winter camp, whatever. We went and like winter camp and we rented this house, and it had like a balcony that had a bunch of beds on it. And I typically nobody likes to share a bed with me, and I don't want to share a bed with anybody else. I don't know, it's just you know, I uh whatever. So everybody detail as to why because of my night sweats.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and you also sleep in the nude.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I forgot about that. Pretty good reason. Yeah. So nobody wants to sleep with me. But I do wear socks.

SPEAKER_05

But I do wear socks.

SPEAKER_01

You're a serial killer. Anyway, simple parts on screen. So it was Evan, Drew, Justin, and Heather were all and Doug, their dog, were all sleeping up on the balcony, and I had just like was on my air mattress on the level below them. So it was like open living room, so we could all hear each other. And I have my noise canceling headphones in, and I pull it out and I hear just like scream, fart, scream, fart, scream, fart. And it was so like over the top that I pulled out my headphone and go, Heather, are you kidding? Like I thought they were joking, and nobody responded. I was like, oh my God, somebody's up there just screaming and farting. And so I dragged the whole bed downstairs into the basement and like fell asleep down there. And so then when they woke up, they're all like, Where's Joanna? Like the bed's gone, everything's gone. And um, and then when I came up later, I was like, I can't believe you guys weren't kidding. Like it it was a symphony of farts and screams, and then we were like, Who was screaming? Like, who was grunting? And I was like, I don't know, like we don't know yet. And then we're playing a game and gets up from the couch and he goes, and I was like, It was you! It's like a game of clue, it was, but so the loudest noise I've ever heard. Did you guys know that I went to a NASCAR race once? No, where why somewhere in Kentucky? It was with when I one of my ex-boyfriends had like tickets, and so we went and we were like in a trailer, and we met some like famous like I don't think I met Tom Petty, but I don't know who it was.

SPEAKER_05

Wait, but who do you think Tom Petty is? Let me clarify.

unknown

Good night.

SPEAKER_05

I feel like we met like a country singer. Okay, he's not a country singer. Who is he a very famous like NASCAR driver 70s rock singer who's now dead? Okay, then it wasn't then well when did he die? Well, recently. Okay, then it could have been him. But you didn't meet I guarantee you did not meet Tom Petty at a NASCAR race in Kentucky.

SPEAKER_01

I got I gotta go back and find those pictures. And they had to give us special headphones, and even with the headphones on, it was so loud that I was like, I can't believe people do this all the time. It was shockingly loud. Fight, flight, or freeze. What is your what is your panic response?

SPEAKER_02

For me, I was gonna say I have anxiety and it manifests as like indecision a lot of times. And so I think that I would be I would freeze because I was trying to decide whether to fight or flight. Because, you know, I also have asthma, so I don't think I'd get very far very fast, like if I tried to run.

SPEAKER_01

You wouldn't have to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02

And then if I were to fight, you know, I don't really got a lot of muscle mass. So I think I'd be there to try and decide what to do. And and then it would be too late. And then it'd be too late. So hopefully Maddie is with me to fight for me.

SPEAKER_05

I would say if it's if it's people I don't know or people who I don't necessarily like value or care about, I'm a fight. I will fight. But if it's like a close friend or something, I will probably actually freeze. So if you were getting mugged, you would fight? Yeah, a million percent. Just the other day, someone yelled at me because I accidentally I'm already on their side. I already see their point. The stoplight turned green, and so I started to go, and I didn't notice that still coming around the corner was a funeral procession like ours. So I started going, and then these people started honking at me, and I said, Oh, whoopsies, and then they kept doing it even after I backed up, and so then I got into the fight mode.

SPEAKER_02

Like to change and get out of your car and no, I just screamed a lot, and you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe not. So sorry for your loss in a panic situation. I freeze, like I black out. When I I meet like one time when I had to call 911, I called and they were like, Okay, like where are you? And I was like, Who's calling? Like I like could not figure out where I was, like it was very strange. Wow. That also happened to me at the magic show last night. What do you mean? They were like, look at a card and remember it, and I was like, I can't.

SPEAKER_02

Have you thought about like watching scary movies to see if that would like desensitize you to fearful situations?

SPEAKER_01

That's not a bad idea. I feel like exposure therapy has come up in a couple sessions for just different things. And so I feel like it could probably but yeah, no, that's not a bad idea to to do that. I forget what my other exposure therapy thing she was thinking about. Oh, just like going to a coffee shop and being like, hold on, I don't know what I want yet. Like just practicing taking a minute, like inconveniencing someone else? Yes, because I'm like when I get up there, it's same thing. I like read the menu and I'm like, I can't take any information in. Cause I'm like, I gotta get through this. I don't want to hold anybody up. And she was like, What if you were just like, uh, just a second?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, there's a there's like a whole protocol for that that you could do. Yeah. To work yourself up to that.

SPEAKER_02

I do think that every episode we learn about a new Joanna ailment. So this is just part of your this is another kind of theme of the podcast. So I think.

SPEAKER_01

It has to be me revealing my my vulnerabilities and my fears in my medical records.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_05

Have you actually have you found doing this to be like therapeutic at all? Not at all.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, now we're gonna move on to Maddie, your topic, which I'm so excited. I I can't believe it took me this long to watch it. Rosie loves Mob Wives, and so she's been really excited for me to watch it and do this episode. Oh my god! We're gonna talk about mob wives. First, I wanna know why. Because you don't I guess you do watch reality TV. We just watched, you're like in the Survivor. No, it's just Survivor. No, I hate Survivor.

SPEAKER_05

Oh, didn't you well I how come I watched you audition for Survivor once? My dad has auditioned for Survivor twice, and I had to videotape him as a child uh doing his audition. But my parents are obsessed with Survivor. So we planned like a Survivor-themed birthday party for my mom's 60th birthday. That's what it was. Okay. And so yeah, like I had to like record my own audition tape and blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_01

That's what I watched. Yeah. Okay, for some reason I thought you liked Survivor. So then Mobwives is really the only reality show that you watch, right?

SPEAKER_05

I like Love is Blind. I like Love on the Spectrum. I love Love on the Spectrum. I don't like, I don't really get like addicted to those types of shows. What TV do you watch? I mean, legitimately, I prefer things that are dark and related to trauma and sadness and trauma. Yeah. Like I love euphoria. I've never seen it. Oh, I love it. I haven't either. It's hard to watch. Well, a lot of a lot of the episodes are, I think, especially. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty dark. But yeah, I love Mob Wives because for a group of people who are so unrelatable, there is something about them that is relatable to me. And I'm not even Italian. I think it's because I grew up in Youngstown, which is very Italian. It's very like gritty, it's very insulated. Everyone looks out for each other in ways that like we can talk shit about Youngstown, we can talk shit about our each other and where we're from and what it is. But if other people come at us and like have negative things to say, then we our our trauma response is to fight. And I grew up just like knowing about the mafia, like knowing about the mob. Again, because like the mob was pretty strong in Youngstown. It was? Oh, very much so. Just like the rest of industrial America, right? Like during the midnight, like during the 1900s, the steel industry was really big. And so that was like it was like a big booming industry, right? So anytime you have also a lot of unions, labor unions, and there's a large there was a large group of Italian Americans who who settled in Youngstown, and we're right between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. We're also right between Chicago and New York, if you look at a map. So it just was like a a community for organized crime to occur.

SPEAKER_02

And what was the what was like being trafficked or controlled? Like was it access to certain contracts or like related to stealth steel or what it was?

SPEAKER_01

That's my big question about the mob. Like what are they what are they doing on a day-to-day?

SPEAKER_05

Well, in like the early 1900s through probably the 70s, 80s, 90s, the like mafia was really focused on kind of skimming off the top of a lot of businesses that maybe they owned or gambling was a big thing. Um they got into drugs smuggling and like that sort of thing. Actually, there's a really good docuseries on Netflix right now called The Five Families. I know.

SPEAKER_01

I it's I was I meant to watch it, and then I didn't, but I because I was reading the Wikipedia about mob wives, and I had never heard of the five families, but it was like that this show, that's when I when I realized what they were, I was like, this is incredible because the show follows wives, daughters, granddaughters of people involved with the five families, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So, like with the modern day mob, which then was born of like the original sort of five families of New York City, and a little backstory about the mafia. So, an example of how it was like born of like a tight-knit group of people and like community and cultural sort of faction. So Sicily in Italy is like where the mob really kind of like originated, and it was back like 1800s, right? So when immigration started, well, actually, even before that.

SPEAKER_01

So when this is like me trying to tell the story of the War of the Roses, I just kept being like, no, we gotta go back a little bit. You gotta understand about the boys in the tower.

SPEAKER_05

Listen, you know the boot, the Italy of the boot. Um, okay, so and well, long story short, Sicily is kind of like isolated from the rest of Italy. So a subculture of like we are who we are, we're in this together, we're going to take care of each other, kind of emerged. Immigration started into the United States, and Italians were like low on the totem pole people. So they all immigrated, you know, mostly through New York City, right? Like that was like the hub of immigration during the Great Migration, and they all had to stick together. They all were taking jobs that were pretty unsavory. And so, like, kind of like a feudal system ended up developing. It developed in like Sicily and then carried over once they got to America because they all kind of had to take care of each other, they all had to look out for each other. But then power dynamics started to emerge, and so leaders of like the Italian community started kind of taking over, and you know, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, sort of dynamics started emerging. And then instead of that being seen as like negative, because it was like a tight-knit Italian community, it was considered like, yeah, they're protecting us. Like, this is what we do. Family takes care of family. We're loyal to each other. So the idea of omerta and like never breaking um, like the secret, you know, oaths and like the the loyalty among all of those people and all those families, that was kind of burned into that culture and still is today. So when you watch the Mob Wives and you like listen to Renee freaking out about her husband, my ex-husband's a rat. And like Karen Gravano, whose dad was Sammy the Bull, who like literally, if you look, if you like read about this, it's fucking fascinating. He flipped from being like a member of the mafia. He like ratted out, you know, his fellow people. They had to go into the witness protection program, which is why Karen Gravano ended up in Arizona and having her daughter. And then when she finally came back to Staten Island, everyone was like, She's a fucking rat.

SPEAKER_01

You can't trust her. Well, that was one of my favorite lines. She goes, I'm just gonna be me. I can walk out of my house and get hit by a car, I can go back to Staten Island and get shot in the head. What are you gonna do? And I was like, Oh my god, what are you gonna do? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I I I didn't get to watch it, but from what I've learned with Kieran, it's like because her dad did that, she is also like persona non-grata, just even though she didn't do anything, but because she's associated with him, they don't like her.

SPEAKER_05

Exactly. And she's also not gonna like be disloyal to her dad. So she's gonna defend him, right? And not be like, oh yeah, what he did was like fucked up. So there she's like solidifying her allegiance, right?

SPEAKER_01

Is he in jail, or was he in jail at the time of this, or was he dead? Uh, when it was filmed? No, I don't know. I think he was in jail, or he was not he wasn't dead. Okay, I know that. But because she asked that psychic, she said something like, I just want to know, like, is my father gonna be in a better place? Like, I'll and the psychic goes, Well, I'm not seeing any miracles. And I was like, Where is her dad? I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah, he's still alive.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02

He's 81.

unknown

Oh.

SPEAKER_01

Sammy the bull. Younger than I thought. Yeah, so I like once I had that context for the show, I really liked it. Um it is like classic old school reality TV. I was hooked immediately from the intro when um who my favorite person is, which I'll talk about in a minute, Drita, she goes, I accidentally married a bank robber. And it's like, what? The clothes, the style, it's so all of it's so good. Did you watch it live?

SPEAKER_04

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05

Okay. I remember sitting in my room, it aired on VH1, and I loved it. And actually, if I I think that this is important for you to know, Joanna. Um, it was originally pitched to the Weinstein company. Um I saw their name on the credits, and I thought, uh. Yeah. So Jennifer Graziano is Renee's sister. Renee's one of the mob wives. Um, Jennifer's Renee's sister, she's the producer of the show. She pitched the show originally to be like a scripted, like, This is about my life to the Weinstein's company. Oh. Um, but at the time, it was like, it was when Desperate Housewives Housewives was just kind of like kind of ending, Real Housewives was just taking off. And so the like wife, like the you know, crazy women sort of trope was really big. So that's how Mob Wives kind of got its start.

SPEAKER_01

That's so interesting. Cause I did think it was wild that they did this. Just based on how Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, that was my question is like, are all of the men who are involved in the criminal activity at this point are they all like in jail? And that's why they could be open about their affiliation with mobs? Like, how is that work?

SPEAKER_05

No, actually. So uh several of the like if you notice, the only well, I don't know, because you probably didn't watch all six seasons, but the only um two men who you really get to see at all in any capacity is Hector, who's Renee's ex-husband. Junior. It's Junior, yeah. Never met a grown man named Junior. Well, you don't want to meet Junior, that's how you dad. That's the rat, right? He ends up becoming an informant. He ends up flipping. So him, and then you kind of see uh Carla. She's in like the earlier seasons. Carla, what's her last name? Oh, Facciolo. Carla Facciolo, her husband was in prison at the time of filming, and then he gets out, and they're getting a divorce. So you kind of see him in like later seasons. I was like, Drita's husband was do we ever see him? You never see him. He, Lee, is his name. He is actually so when we think about the five families, right? Like the structure of the mafia, you have like the the head of each of the families, and the families are usually just named for who they were originally founded under. So Drita's husband, Lee, he worked with the Gravano and Columbo crime families, which are both families that like ended up flipping, kind of being traitors to their original starters, I suppose, like godfathers. But he was always kind of like I don't know technically what he would be referred to as, but he was probably always like a soldier in the families because he did the dirty work. He was a bank robber.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So he's in like fucking prison for a long time at the time of uh shooting.

SPEAKER_01

They seem to enjoy it. Like all the men are just like, yeah, I'll be here for a couple of years. I don't know. Then I'll then I'll get out, then I'll go back. Uh what are you gonna? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, that's like the culture of it too. Is like you just expect to do time, especially if you're lower on the totem pole.

SPEAKER_01

But also hold on, then it's so weird that they all hang out because it's like they're all representative of different families. So they're cool to just like hang out with somebody from the other team. Yeah, I think it depends. Okay. I want to talk about our favorite characters. I've only seen the first couple episodes, so I'm sure my answer could change in time, but immediately I'm in sure I'm into I'm into Drita. I love that. I love that she fights people and she keeps talking about how many people she's put in the hospital.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I love that she didn't have time to do her makeup because she had to get cold cuts for her husband in prison that he calls to request cold cuts and a vanilla coke.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And then she gets in a fight with him and she's like, I'm not bringing you package. I hate you fucking package. Um that's a really good uh impersonation. I like that. Oh, great, thanks. Um, I also liked the immediately I was like the way she dressed because I can see there's another world in which I'm Drita. Like, there is. That was my aesthetic.

SPEAKER_02

And the ex-boyfriends. Yeah. Yes. So I tried to just watch, I couldn't watch the actual series because it's on Paramount Plus, and I don't have that. So I tried to just watch some YouTube videos, and one of the ones that I watched was Drita and Karen fighting on a rooftop about Lee. And um, and Drita being like, you all were broken up for two years before I got together with him, and Karen was like, No, I was just cheating on him at that time. We were still together. Amazing. I was cheating on him with Dave for like all this time, and then and then, yeah, then it was clear she like left to go to Arizona to have her babies. And then they like stopped being drita was like, we stopped being friends, and Karen was like, no, we did it. We were still friends. So that was the important that was the important scene that I watched. And I also just want to say that when I heard, I also listened to a podcast, when I heard Drita's name, I never would have thought that it was just spelled D-R-I-T-A.

SPEAKER_01

So she's not Italian at all. No, she's Albanian, right?

SPEAKER_05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and she said her father disowned her for marrying Lee. Yeah. The bank robber. But then when she was mad at him, she was like, he doesn't even rob banks, he just pulls stuff out of the walls.

SPEAKER_05

Just diminishing his crime. His career. His whole career. Well, there um, there's also like a thing with Karen and Drita where like Karen came in Drita's house and saw like a painting on the wall. And Karen was like, Oh, I like the painting. And Drita was like, Oh, yeah, does that look familiar? It was in your apartment with Lee. And then like the cutaway is Karen saying, Yeah, I remember that because I was riding him while I was looking at it on the wall. I remember that.

SPEAKER_01

Karen's so messy when she's like meeting up with Renee. And Renee's like, Oh, I think I'm gonna go like work it out with Drita. Like, we got into a fight, but like I think we can move forward. You know, we all said a lot of nasty things. And Karen goes, Yeah, she said she was gonna choke, what did she say? I didn't write it down, but she was like, How she wants to like choke your stupid neck or something? And Renee goes, What did she say? And it's like the fight, then then she like doesn't meet up with Rita because she's like, on second thought, I heard what she said about my big dumb neck, and now I don't want to meet up.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But it's like Karen started that fight so messy. Who's your favorite character, Maddie? Wait, Katie, do you have a favorite character?

SPEAKER_02

No, I have very little to contribute to this conversation, but okay. I'm just giving live reactions.

SPEAKER_05

All right, well, Katie, your homework though is to look up Big Ange. Oh, I did see about her, and I was sad that she died. Yes. Big Ange is a gift. Um, my favorite mob wife, bar none, hands down, is Renee Graziano. I will lay in the street for her.

SPEAKER_02

What do you can to deserve your fealty?

SPEAKER_05

The fact that she is so loyal is amazing, I think. It's something I could never aspire to.

SPEAKER_01

No, I know. I was like, I would a hundred percent snitch. They wouldn't even have to push me too hard to get that answer.

SPEAKER_05

No, I I I think I mean I do, I just see, I don't know, and if anyone like from my hometown or like who whatever knows me from high school or whatever would listen to this and hear me say these words, I don't know how they would take them. So I'm like sitting with that kind of anxiousness, I think. But like there is just something about her and the way that she is. She's so fucked up, she has so much going on in her life, she is very mentally ill, she's got a lot of addiction problems. Oh, does she? Oh my god. Did she almost die from the BBL? She did. She did almost die from getting the BBL. Okay. It's on the show, actually. Oh, is it? Okay, great. Yeah, it happens. It's crazy. Um okay, great. Yeah, she's constantly getting classic surgery. Like, there's just something about how vulnerable and raw and like chaotic and messy, but she's still gonna fucking show up and she's still gonna like let you know what she thinks. And like I just love that like gritty like resiliency.

SPEAKER_01

She's so chaotic. One of my favorite things that she does is she's constantly calling people to tell them how upset someone else is. She'll be like, My son, he's so upset, he's shaking right now. He's so upset, my son. And then it cuts to her son, and he's just like sitting there eating cereal. And it's like she's constantly telling other people. Then, like when that guy at a restaurant, I guess, like showed her a picture of his dick, which is awful, and then she got in a fight with him. She called Junior, and Junior was on parole, so it's like he couldn't get into a fight. And Junior walks in, she's like, Oh, Junior, he's so upset. Look at him, he's so upset, he's shaking. And he just is like, Hey, do you guys want to go inside real quick to talk to this guy? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And she's always like smoking a cigarette and like shaking on the phone hard and shaking, and and like the veins in her neck are freaking out. And that's who my sister got me a cameo from to announce that she was pregnant.

SPEAKER_07

Hey Maddie, it is your favorite mob wife for NA. So I got a request to tell you something, and I really don't know how to break it to you. I'm a mob wife. Let me say this. You're gonna be an ant. You're gonna be an ant. That's right. It's just uh book me to tell you that you are going to be an ant, and I'm so excited for you. Um, life as a grandmother for me is so rewarding, so I'm pretty sure you're going to be a rock star of an ant. And maybe we can get another mob wife. I think we need to call the H1 babe. All right, Maddie. Love you.

SPEAKER_01

She, when she was in that fight with Drita, or I think she was fighting with Karen on the on the patio. Um, I think she is she is quick and funny, but I think what in when she's in a fight, this is what I fear would happen to me is that like I don't have any cool comebacks coming out of my mouth. Because I think that Karen said, like, you should leave. And she said, I don't leave anywhere. I never have and I never will. Yeah. Like, yeah, sick. You know, that's like daughter burn.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. But I think that's cool about Renee, too, is that. She everything is so like steeped in like the fact that she's Anthony Graziana's daughter. But that's so much a part of her identity, and that's what she thinks everyone knows about her. And that's like very her personality forward. And it's like, listen, she fucking, if that's her identity, she's gonna fucking give it to you, and you're gonna lean into it, and you have no choice but to participate in it. Even if it's insane.

SPEAKER_01

She talked about that in therapy. How she was like, I don't have an identity outside of this. Yeah. I wanna not be like this. Another thing about Renee, I've never heard anybody say this before, but she said, I swear on my son's eyes. I was like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You can take him if I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_01

I know. I thought that was so strange. And then we didn't talk about Carla at all, but one thing I did like about her is how her husband thought that when he went to jail, it would fix it was like gonna help their marriage. He was like, We need to work on our marriage. I think me going to jail will help that. And then they end up getting divorced. Let me check my mob wife's questions real quick. Yeah, let me see if there's anything else I wanted to say. Um, oh yeah, I just like don't understand what the mobs are doing um in today's, you know, market, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_05

Uh from what like I like the lottery is like a big thing.

SPEAKER_01

The lottery?

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, like stores and stuff that like have the lottery, like sell like a lot of tickets and all that stuff. I think there's some mafia connections still associated there. I was thinking about I should start playing the lottery, but now I don't know. Well, you would be safe because you're not like buying all the lottery tickets and like giving the money to the maf the mobia, the the mobbia. The mafia, yeah. And then like having to or like having to pay them back. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Well, and Joanna, you would be supporting some of your new favorite wives, maybe. Remember, they don't work, so they need your support through applying lottery tickets.

SPEAKER_01

Right, Katie. It's time I picked up a cause. We have, yeah, you maybe should volunteer.

SPEAKER_05

Do you want to talk about volunteer for the mob?

SPEAKER_02

Oh, yeah. I think we've established that Joanna would get way too scared.

SPEAKER_01

I would get way too scared, and I'm so not loyal in that way. Like, I really feel like they'd be like, Come on, tell me where he is, and I'd be like, I'll never tell you. And they'd be like, tell me, and I'd be like, Well, all right.

SPEAKER_02

Or they'd they'd post you like as the lookout or something, and you'd be like, ah, someone's coming. I would please come.

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Oh, sorry. Oh, sorry. Oh my god, sorry. Yeah, I know. I don't I don't think that's for me. I am looking for jobs though.

SPEAKER_05

So if you do hear of anything, um I'll let uh I'll let my connections know. Thank you so much for participating and engaging in my special interest, though. Of course, and I would love to talk more about the mafia at any moment. And I have a lot more I could say about like the Youngstown Mafia, but I don't want to I don't want to right now. Okay. I have to ask my dad if it's okay.

SPEAKER_02

Was your You might end up on a list? No, my dad's never.

SPEAKER_01

Your dad also auditioned for the Mafia along with Survivor.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01

I think you'd do well. I really can't see you f fitting in and like settling in quite well in that world. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

You know, it's not too late for Josh to get or involved in some organized crime.

SPEAKER_05

You know, yeah, provide for the family. Listen, I would love it, but I don't know that he's got the constitution for it. Sweet, sweet Joshua.

SPEAKER_01

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_05

Oh, is he too nice?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Okay. Yeah, he is. He laughs too loud to be in the mob. Too loud. He's got a giggle.

SPEAKER_05

We were when we were in Europe, I like said, I was like, okay, like we can do this. It's like not a big deal. It was something like we can sit in any seat that we want on this bus, like going on this tour or whatever. And he was like, I don't know, I don't know. And I was like, yeah, like I'm pretty sure we can sit wherever. And the tour guide or something got on and was like, oh yeah, so they're assigned seats. And he was like, I told her. He immediately turned on you.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my God. I feel so aligned with him. And I was like, Jesus.

unknown

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_02

I can already feel his anxiety of like traveling with you and you being like, Oh, I'm sure we can go in here.

SPEAKER_01

Fine. Yeah. It's it's it's literally fine. I'm sure we can take this. They won't know.

SPEAKER_05

Our like our biggest fight we got on on that trip was because I didn't let someone out of like the bus, whatever, like getting out of my own. Is it another funeral procession? No. It was some lady, and she was taking too long to get out of her aisle. And so I just went and like had to get something out of like the compartment above. And he was so anxious at me and was like, nothing, nothing.

SPEAKER_03

It's fine. And I was like, it's fine. There's no big deal. And like that was like our fight. Because I was like, don't ever talk to me like that again.

SPEAKER_01

Meanwhile, I'm picturing you like absolutely absolutely beating down that old woman. Okay. Is there anything else that you wanted to say about mob wives or being scared of loud noises? Um, I don't think so. Yeah, I think I don't think so either. We've said all the things. Thanks for taking a risk on me. Yeah, I was really concerned um at first. There were I was well, I was just worried, you know. Yeah, I get it. Well, thank you all so much.

SPEAKER_02

Thanks for having us. Love you. Bye. Bye. Bye.

SPEAKER_01

So I just I'm in the process of editing our episode, and I wanted to have you come on really quickly just to give an update because I totally forgot about this. But you went to a mob wives event.

SPEAKER_05

Well, I uh live in a city that has a city winery, and they advertised an event several months ago. I want to say January. Immediately I bought four tickets. I bought an entire table, a premium table, because the event was called The Sit Down, and it was featuring Jennifer Graziano, who created Mobwives. Renee's sister, right? Renee's sister, and Renee also was the on this in the sit-down. And then a third mob wife, his girl, Marissa, who was in season six, but not for like she wasn't like a main character. So I bought these tickets without anyone to go with me because I'm the only person in my life. Yeah. Yeah. I was really hoping that this episode would have dropped before.

SPEAKER_01

So that way maybe so you could recoup some of that money.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, right. Because every time I looked at my credit card transactions and the balance, I was like, what the fuck is this $240 charge for? Oh, it was my ticket to the mob wives. So anyway, it rolled around and my friend Ashley was able to come with me, our friend Kate, and our friend Ashton. We all dressed up in our best leopard print and we went and saw them, and it was it changed my life for the better.

SPEAKER_01

Did it? It did. So was it, did you get you got to ask of a qu did you get to ask any questions of them?

SPEAKER_05

So there wasn't there wasn't like an actual QA, but I did get to, I did force myself on them.

SPEAKER_01

This is reminding me of Katie's rehearsal dinner when you wanted to stand up and say something.

SPEAKER_05

And you like put your pointer finger into my thigh, like my mom used to do at church if I was being like rambumped. Don't stand up. Do not.

SPEAKER_01

I've just never seen a rehearsal dinner happen that way where like everybody around the room just stands up and says, and one more thing who's crazy.

SPEAKER_05

People who are moved to speak. So I did get to ask the uh a question, and you're gonna love this question that I asked. I asked, okay, I just want to know, you know, you guys came out uh with the show in 2011 during a time when Real Housewives and reality TV were really kind of taking over pop culture and media. And I'm curious how you guys have been received among other reality stars throughout the years. Interesting. And they loved that question. And they said that they've been received very, very well. They've made lots of different friends among like the other reality TV stars, like including Teresa Judeis. Renee is apparently friends with her. That feels right. It does feel right. Yeah. So I love that. And then I don't know how they got onto this topic, but there are a couple episodes in the season where Renee's like actual therapy sessions are being filmed. Yeah, I saw some of those. In session, yeah. And I always have thought how insane that is that a counselor would like allow that, or a therapist of any kind, really. But I guess if the client says it's okay, then it's okay.

SPEAKER_01

It happens a lot on the housewives, and you're kind of like, ooh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05

I don't know how I feel about this, yeah, this therapist. I don't know. I don't love that. But so I always thought that was weird. And then Renee said, when we were engaging, she said, yeah, and you know what? One of my therapists actually dropped me because my husband had my my well, now my ex-husband had a hit put out on him. And so she stopped seeing me because of it. And I and I thought that was really fucked up because I really liked her. And I said, I literally could not contain myself. I was like, I remember that.

unknown

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_05

And I am a counselor and I teach counseling, and I've told my students about how unethical that is.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, you like use it in your syllabus.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I've cited Mob Wives.

SPEAKER_01

Dude, you you were sitting at a table. Did you shout this? Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

There were no microphones. It was just shouting. Okay. And then Jen Jen Graziano, who is currently in the process of like making another Mob Wives season, but like a bit different. She said, Oh my God, you're a counselor. We'll have to have you come be the therapist on uh the next season. Oh my god, I would die. And I said, Yes. Did you exchange information? Well, I have messaged both Renee and Jen on Instagram.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I was gonna say, because you sent us a picture of us together. Two pictures, kind of a before and after of you and Renee.

SPEAKER_05

I did. Um, I so after I forced my way into their world by shouting questions at them, I muscled my way up to the stage because they also asked to take a selfie with like the whole crowd from the stage. So that was cute. Um, and then I did not leave the space I was in. And I said, Renee, can I just take a picture with you really quick?

unknown

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_05

And she said, Hurry up, we're not we're not really allowed to do this. And I said, That's okay. Uh I'll be quick. So we got a picture, and I was like, By the way, you were uh hired by my sister to do a cameo that's what her pregnancy to me. I messaged it to her on Instagram on Tuesday and she didn't respond.

SPEAKER_01

Day in my life messaging people and seeing that red mark and seeing them never respond.

SPEAKER_05

No three dots.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because the picture you sent me, you had two pictures. One was you and Renee, the second one head transplant.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. So I really wanted to increase my chances of her either liking my story or sharing my story to her own. So the the picture that we got together is like, I mean, Renee, you're beautiful. Okay. I think you're a overhead lighting. Yeah, overhead lighting, a bit grainy. So I said to my friends, guys, how do you make this better so that she'll maybe repost it? And so ChatGPT came through and edited the photo, and it looks like she had a head transplant. You look beautiful in both pictures.

SPEAKER_01

She looks like a completely different person. I know.

SPEAKER_05

I know.

SPEAKER_01

Did you tell it to go harder on her than you? Actually, I did. I that's right.

SPEAKER_05

If you look at Renee's Instagram, none of all the pictures are retouched. Yeah, totally, big time. And like I just wanted I wanted her, I really I wanted her to feel comfortable.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was a gift for her. I get that. Yeah. So I get that.

SPEAKER_05

But she didn't repost or share or like any of it, so it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_01

One of my friends one time, you know how like when they when you get your hair done, if you're lucky that they'll like take a picture of you and post it.

SPEAKER_05

That's my dream. Me too.

SPEAKER_01

Never happened to me. Well, I'll tell you, one time my girl took a picture and I was like, this is it. She was taking the picture. I because I'd been there for hours getting highlights. I didn't feel great. I farted. She never posted the picture. I don't know if it was related. I know. Wait, did she take the picture before or after you farted? Kind of like as. Like she was like, okay, now like look over your shoulder. What? And I I was just like, it moved some things, and I didn't mention it. She didn't mention it. Nobody talked about it. Um, but she never posted the picture. I'm so embarrassed. You just couldn't hold it in? No, it like literally I've described it before. This is so awful. I don't know if I'll include this, but it's like honestly, sometimes you know how it sounds like a rubber band snapping, like it just like falls out of you. Oh no. It was like that, and I was like, um, but my friend Emily had her hair done, and somebody's like, Can I take a picture of you? And then she was like, Yeah, they posted it and they like face-tuned the shit out of her face. And Emily was like, That doesn't make me feel so good.

SPEAKER_05

That's fucked up.

SPEAKER_01

I know. I did want to ask you a question because before we hopped on, I was goog googling like Mob Wives News. Sure. And I think it I think that Renee must have done some interview recently with her sister, and they were talking about the rooftop fight between Karen and Drita at the end at season one finale. Mm-hmm. And something about somebody sitting on somebody with their legs open and like breaking plates over heads. What happened? It was at a celebration of life party. Yeah, I think it was at like Renee's birthday party. Which she called it a celebration of life party. And I'm wondering, did some did she run that by anybody before she said this is what I'm gonna call my birthday party? A celebration of life party?

SPEAKER_05

Well, you know what it might have been actually. So during one of the first episodes in season one, I think, she had like she was going in for like full body reconstructive surgery. Oh and I think it was like having a BBL put in. Or uh BBL. She was.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you did tell me that.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, and she flatlined, she died on the table.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god. So I guess it could have been a celebration of life party. Yeah, this could be that. There's a real housewife on hostiles of Atlanta who's on her 15th butt. Her butt exploded while she was like on stage performing or something. What's in there? It was illegal like silicone something implants or something, and um they expl her butt exploded and she had to go to the hospital. So it's it's a very dangerous surgery, which I know you bring up every time I say. Like I don't know why I talk about it a lot, but you always say, Well, Renee died technically from Well, okay, so when this lady's butt exploded, was she doing anything or it just happened? She was sitting, she was getting ready to, she's like a famous singer. She was getting ready to go on stage to like do a big number or something, and she was sitting on a couch and she was like, Why is the couch soaking wet? And then she stood up, went on stage, performed with an exploded butt, and then went to the hospital.

SPEAKER_04

She didn't feel it like leaking from her skin? I don't know. Yikes. I know. Let this be a warning to all.

SPEAKER_01

I know, but god, if I wouldn't love some lips. I I hear you. I know this is a a thing. Yeah. But you'd be able to tell.

SPEAKER_05

A million percent, Joanna.

SPEAKER_01

Like, again, I always say this. I don't have load-bearing lips. You do always say that. Yeah. And and you do always say that. Yeah. She does. It's sad because I really like it's really hard to look at lipstick ads. Because they really don't make any lipstick ads with women with small lips. And I'm like, that's unfortunate because I need to see how the lipstick will look on me. But then whenever I do, go to like a tagged, I'll go to Instagram and see like people who tagged the product in it, and they'll be like small lipped women advertising it. And I'm like, ugh, gross. So I kind of get it.

SPEAKER_05

You know. You're disgusted by your own kind. I'm so disgusted.

SPEAKER_01

Well, thanks for talking about Mob Wives again with me.

SPEAKER_05

It's my pleasure. And wouldn't it be great if I got to be their counselor? Yeah, it would be wild. Oh my god. Well, I'll let you know if Jennifer uh sends me a job application. Yeah, please do. Okay, well.

SPEAKER_01

Sounds like already HIPAA has been violated in some way. Thanks for listening to my whole personality. This podcast is edited and produced by me, Joanna Clark. Theme music by Rebecca Jaffe. If you like this podcast, please like, subscribe, read it, review it, wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening. Bye bye.